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Guns in Banks

Gun-toting bank manager fired from job at Oldsmar bank

TAMPA – 

Single mother Ivette Ros doesn’t go anywhere without her gun.

But the 37-year-old lost her job as a bank manager for bringing her gun to work at a Wells Fargo branch in Oldsmar.

“When we take our course for concealed weapons licenses, they do state the bank is a place we can take your weapon to, so I never thought otherwise until I was being questioned,” she said.

Ros doesn’t know who found out she was packing or how they found out, but she says bank security questioned her about the gun she was carrying. She says she was fired three days later.  …   (John Lott)

The courts, or at least lawyers, will fight this one out.

When I worked in the financial industry, the company was VERY clear there were to be no firearms on the premises.  Period.  Or in the parking lot; in our personal cars.  Or at company-sponsored functions – even if we weren’t being paid or after-hours.

Over-reaching a bit, I think.

Thankfully, the Arizona State Legislature addressed the parking lot issue positively.  And, as above, I suspect the other issues will be/or have been addressed in the courts or by lawyers.

Not exactly the same, but similarly…

I had a ‘friend’ some years back named Chip.  I’ve written about him in these pages.  He was a friend to me when I needed one, but was probably a sociopath.  He was, at the very least passive-aggressive.  We are no longer friends.

He was paranoid about being caught carrying a concealed weapon (before such a law existed in Arizona) so he did carry, openly.  A lot.  Now, as there was no CCW back then, the culture was different, and people were much more accepting of such behavior.

Back then banks were not off limits to gun carriers.  They still are not, unless, of course the dreaded statutory sign is portrayed (in AZ.).  But Chip would go to his bank regularly with his Colt Combat Commander in a belt holster for all to see.

I’m guessing some new clerk from a hoplophobic State saw it and freaked out.  Nothing happened in the bank.  He had done nothing wrong.

But, one Saturday morning about 0800, there was a knock on Chip’s apartment door.  Two large suited individuals stood there, imposing.  Chip used the pejorative word jamokes to describe them.

One spoke.  “We don’ wan’ chuz carrying yor gun in da bank anymore.”  (I’m certain his mimicking of the bank employee’s statement was slightly inaccurate in it’s portrayal.)

Chip nodded in the affirmative, and closed the door.  Then, on Monday morning, he tracked down the bank president and called him.  Such was his nature.

And he proceeded to dress down the bank, the bank president, his employees, his policies, and his lack of legal knowledge.

Then he moved his banking elsewhere.  I’m certain THAT told the bank president!

I’m all about every able-bodied, legally-able citizen to be able to carry.  Openly, concealed…I don’t care.  ANYWHERE.  Banks, schools, shopping malls, hospitals, where we work – anyplace bad stuff might happen.

Because bad stuff DOES happen.  And we cannot predict where or when.

But, let’s not be dicks about it.

Is ANYWHERE Safe?

(Courtesy of The Armed Lutheran)

Last week I responded to a fan who wrote me asking for advice on how to convince his anti-gun wife to allow him to buy and carry a handgun. This week I got similar questions from a fan who is debating whether to carry concealed: is anywhere safe?

I find it difficult to justify carrying around a weapon at all times. True, I understand that crime can happen anywhere, but to be honest, it would be difficult to justify carrying around a gun to a place where no crime has happened, ever.  Do you honestly think that you’re going to need your firearm to protect your family if you’re out in ‘safe‘ areas?

anywheresafe_01The blanket assertion that no crime has happened, ever, is far fetched. But, lets accept the hypothetical. Let’s assume that no crimes have ever occurred in your house. Fine. Do you intend to ever leave your house? If your neighborhood is crime-free, that’s wonderful. Mine is too. Do you every leave the neighborhood to get gas for your car or to get groceries or to go shopping? Unless you are completely self-sufficient, home-schooling your kids, growing your own food, sewing your own clothing, you probably need to leave the house and your neighborhood from time to time. And I guarantee that the places you go are not “safe.”

Do you then limit your excursions outside the home to places where crimes have never been committed. I’m not sure how you determine that, unless you scour through police reports for every place you go, before you go there. Crimes happen everywhere, every day. Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t.

Let’s look at this another way. I’ve never had a house fire, my home has never burned. Yet I keep a fire extinguisher in my house. How can I justify the expense of having multiple fire extinguishers in a place where no fire has happened, ever? My kids have never drowned in my swimming pool. Neither have I. Nor has my wife. Yet I paid for swimming lessons for my kids. How could I justify the expense of private swimming lessons? My car has never broken down in a snow storm like the one that hit Atlanta recently, leaving thousands of people stranded. Yet I keep a “get home bag” in both of my cars. How can I justify the expense of those supplies when I have never been stranded, ever.

Nobody had ever driven a truck into the Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, before George Hennard did it on October 16, 1991. He then proceeded to shoot 50 people, killing 23. Ask Suzanna Hupp how it felt to watch her parents shot to death, while her pistol was locked away in her car. If only she had been allowed to carry it, maybe something could have been done to stop the slaughter. That event sparked the passage of Texas’ shall-issue concealed carry law in 1995.

Ask Amanda Collins, about how it felt to be unable to defend herself at the University of Nevada when she was raped at gunpoint on campus, in a so-called “gun free zone.”

Ask Holly Adams, whose daughter died in the Virginia Tech massacre, how she feels.

How many people — lying in pools of their own blood, suffering through the indignity of rape or torture, hiding in a closet from an active shooter, breathing their final breaths — thought to themselves “I can’t believe this is happening to me?” How many people do you see at night on TV, interviewed after some horrific crime, telling reporters that they just can’t believe it happened in their neighborhood.

When asked why people decide to buy or carry a gun, they give a variety of answers. Some decide to do it in response to a crime. They’ve been attacked or had an incident which left them feeling vulnerable, like the incidents I recounted in my previous post. Some do it because they live or work in a crime-ridden area. Most do it to be prepared, so that IF something happens, they won’t be defenseless. It’s not paranoid to want to be prepared for the worst.

symptoms_01You are ultimately responsible for your own protection. The Supreme Court has ruled that police have no duty to protect you. So, when something bad happens, would you rather have the means to defend yourself and your family or would you leave it to the police? If you choose the latter, that’s fine. Just realize that calling 9-1-1 means someone else with a gun will come to your rescue, but will most likely show up in time to question witnesses, gather evidence, and draw a chalk line around your carcass.

The bottom line, though, is that nowhere is safe. Deranged lunatics have proven time and time again, that everywhere is safe until it’s not. Luby’s Cafeteria. Sandy Hook Elementary School. The Aurora theater. Columbine High School. Virginia Tech. Northern Illinois University. Santana High School. Bath Township. Dunblane. University of Texas. University of Nevada. Fort Hood. All of these places, and thousands of others were thought to be safe until someone made them hunting grounds for violent criminals.

“Safe areas,” “Safe Zones,” “Gun Free Zones,” simply do not exist. The safety you think exists is a facade and ignoring the realities of the world doesn’t make you safer. It leaves you vulnerable. Evil exists. And it doesn’t look like a gun. It looks like Dylan Kliebold. Charles Manson. Jared Laughner. James Holmes. George Hennard. Jeffrey Dahmer. Adam Lanza. Andrew Kehoe. Charles Whitman. Thomas Hamilton. Seung-Hui Cho. Evil looks like man. And it’s not deterred by signs or laws.

So, do I honestly think I am going to need my firearm to protect my family? I pray that I never do. But I’m not so naive as to think that I never will.  (The Armed Lutheran)

INDEED!

FINALLY! Some Good Legal Stuff!

AZ: State Preemption Law to Get Some Teeth

While specifically aimed at Tucson’s gun ordinances, it would apply statewide:

HB 2517, approved Thursday by the House Judiciary Committee, would change all that.

It says any individual or organization whose membership is “adversely affected” by a law they believe is illegal can sue. Challengers who win are entitled to legal fees and damages up to $100,000.

The legislation also says the court can assess a civil penalty of up to $500,000 against any elected or appointed government official if a judge determines the violation of state pre-emption laws was “knowing and willful.”

And to make sure that resonates with city officials, HB 2517 forbids the city from reimbursing the council member or employee for that penalty. It even says the official has to bear his or her own legal fees.

Of course, while the committee has passed it, there’s still a long road to travel before the Governor signs it into law.

AND…

9th Circuit Affirms Right to Carry Guns in California

From WaPo:

The Ninth Circuit’s decision in Peruta v. San Diego, released minutes ago, affirms the right of law-abiding citizens to carry handguns for lawful protection in public.

California law has a process for applying for a permit to carry a handgun for protection in public, with requirements for safety training, a background check, and so on. These requirements were not challenged. The statute also requires that the applicant have “good cause,” which was interpreted by San Diego County to mean that the applicant is faced with current specific threats. (Not all California counties have this narrow interpretation.) The Ninth Circuit, in a 2-1 opinion written by Judge O’Scannlain, ruled that Peruta was entitled to Summary Judgement, because the “good cause” provision violates the Second Amendment.

More here and here.

This certainly has ramifications for gun holders in “may issue” states such as NY and NJ.  (BOTH STORIES stolen courtesy of Alphecca)

With regard to both stories, it’s about f’n time!

h/t Jeff Soyer

Feinstein Logic!

SERIOUSLY!?

And this woman is a United States Senator!

AND, a gun owner and a CCW holder in California!

Can you say idiot and hypocrite?  I knew you could.

h/t John Bradley, Doomsday Economy

I Would Not Carry a Gun for the Government.

I Would Not Carry a Gun for the Government

By 

Why RonPaulMD.com?

Ron on his new personal website, and why he became a doctor and not a soldier.

When I was thinking of the URL for my new personal homepage, I considered many possibilities. Thanks also to all those who sent other suggestions. But I settled on RonPaulMD.com as reflecting a very important area of my life. To be a physician, and deliver 4,000 babies, was extremely fulfilling. Many times, I see people wearing a “I Was a Ron Paul Baby” t-shirt. Once, when I gave a speech in Iowa, I was told the head of the convention center wanted to talk to me. She had her birth certificate, and this time, she said, she wanted a legible signature! I was delighted to sign it again.

RonPaulMD.com highlights the non-political aspect of my life, the part not involved with that great engine of violence in DC, except to oppose it. Though when I first ran for office, advisors told me to emphasize the MD, since it showed I was not a lawyer!

Most important, I became a doctor to avoid being a soldier. I knew I would be drafted, and such things as seeking asylum in another country, or becoming a conscientious objector, were out of my range of thought at that time. But if I became a doctor, I knew I would not be given a rifle and told to shoot other young men at government orders.

Though the horrible UN oath is used in medical schools these days, I still adhere to the Hippocratic Oath, and its injunction to “First, do no harm.” It’s a great, ancient libertarian principle.

Thanks for visiting my home page. I hope you come back often.  (emphasis Guffaw)

Dr. Paul reminded me of something.  When I turned eighteen, my Father made certain I registered for The Draft.  This was during the height of the Vietnam War.  Between my disgust for communism, and a family history involving Marines, I really wanted to go.  And kill communists for my country.

But, being disabled, they wouldn’t have me.  Later, in college, I tried again with R.O.T.C.  They, too, refused me.  Said I couldn’t march.  (I could shoot, but when was THAT ever a qualification?)

One of my good friends, David (Yes, another David – this makes 4?) came-of-age and registered as a conscientious objector.   I even wrote a letter to his draft board attesting to his sincerity in his beliefs.  And I asked a third time if they’d consider me as his replacement.  No go.

But in my adolescent fantasies (the ones not consumed by girls), I had dreamt of becoming a Marine, then a local cop, then a federal agent of some flavor.  This was not in anyone else’s cards.

It occurred to me a couple years ago that the primary reason I wanted law enforcement under my belt was so I could carry a firearm, legally, concealed.  And, of course, to catch the ‘bad guys’.  Now, with my CCW permit (and Constitutional Carry) I can do that in most of my State with impunity.

Now that I’m over 60, and the appeal of working for The Man is gone, I would not carry a gun for my government.  Unless, of course, the Chinese military is advancing up from the Mexican Border…

And many of those ‘bad guys’ now work for government.  Who knew?

I cannot imagine the anguish of those in government who honor their oaths to The Constitution, and have to do the bidding of the ‘bad guys’.  It must be excruciating.  And demoralizing.

Some of them are friends.  You know who you are.  Thank you for your service and dedication.

The BEST CCW States

from Guns and Ammo magazine (via The War on Guns)

a sampling:

50. California

If you’re not a Hollywood celebrity or rock star, odds are you won’t be getting a permit—especially if you live near a populated area. Among the most strict gun laws in the nation, California legislation also restricts residents to one handgun purchase per 30 days, and handguns have to be on the “approved” list for legal sale.

42. Illinois

The fight to earn Shall-Issue concealed carry in the Land of Lincoln has been a roller coaster ride in 2013 since the 7th Circuit Court ruled Illinois’ ban on concealed carry was unconstitutional. Residents are currently waiting until at least January 2014 to apply for licenses. The current law is Shall-Issue, with 16 hours of required training and an excessive application fee. Legislative battles over carry rights in Illinois are far from over, but are on track to becoming more forgiving.

And, my favorite of the listings:

1. Arizona

After taking the top spot in “The Best States for Gun Owners,” Arizona tops the leaderboard once again. As a “Constitutional Carry” state, anyone 21 and over who can legally own a firearm can carry it concealed without a license. In addition, Arizona issues licenses on a Shall-Issue basis, allowing residents and non-residents to carry their weapons when traveling out-of-state. Arizona also has no duty to immediately inform an officer, has excellent reciprocity and a Stand Your Ground law.

ANOTHER reason I’m glad I’m not Guffaw in CA

But Civilians With Guns NEVER Save ANYONE!

They are a danger – take the guns away!

By Jackee Coe The Arizona Republic | azcentral.com Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:40 PM

A man was taken to the hospital with life-threatening injuries early Sunday morning after a shooting broke out at a Glendale house party, authorities said.

Glendale police officers responded about 1:30 a.m. to a house near 51st and Olive avenues where they found a 27-year-old man who had been shot, Glendale Police Department spokeswoman Officer Tracey Breeden said. He was treated at the scene and taken to the hospital, where he remained Sunday afternoon.

Investigators determined an argument started between individuals at the party and the 27-year-old, and he was asked to leave, she said. The man left for a short time, then returned with a rifle and began firing off rounds outside the house.

The man pointed the rifle at partygoers and a 39-year-old partygoer pulled out a handgun and shot the 27 year old before police arrived, Breeden said. The shooter did not try to leave and waited for officers to arrive.

The shooter has been cooperative with investigators, she said. He was questioned and released by detectives.

“This is standard procedure under these type of circumstances,” Breeden said. “Information and evidence detectives have gathered leads them to believe the 27-year-old was not only firing his rifle, endangering partygoers, but also pointed the weapon at other partygoers, endangering them, prior to the 39-year-old displaying a weapon and shooting the 27-year-old.”

The investigation is ongoing and charges are pending, Breeden said.

h/t Guns Save Lives

To Keep My Pants Up!

wilderness beltWhen the Balloon Goes Up just posted an excellent article regarding an oft forgotten part of a gunnie’s equipment – their belt.

I’ve seen experienced shooters with $100+ concealment rigs hanging from to a $9.95 cardboard 3/4″ belt from WalMart. Not a good idea.  I had a belt break once.  Kinda ruins the whole discrete, concealed thing.

My daily go-to belt is a Wilderness belt.  So much so that I’ve 5 or 6 of them, in assorted sizes, as my weight has gone up and down over the years.  My only caveat might be if carrying in a designated ‘no guns allowed’ area, it might be a ‘tell’ to the authorities.  ‘Course, they might decide your are an ‘only one’, and let you slide.

(Not that that’s ever happened to ME!)

For dressier (business) wear, I’ve a thick, dense, leather dress belt with a heavy nickeled brass buckle. Thankfully, I don’t have to dress-up much, anymore.  While I LOVE my Wilderness belts, they don’t work as well with dress slacks!

attn FTC – I bought all of my belts, holsters and assorted gear from Ralph (The Wilderness) Holzhaus, with the exception of those bought elsewhere!  Now go away.

Starbucks, we hardly knew ye…

starbucks noWell, it was a nice run.

A few years back the ubiquitous coffee distribution chain Starbucks let it be known that as long as their patrons followed federal, state and local law, they could carry and possess weapons in their places of business.  The No Guns Allowed signs came down.

Why this is weird and/or shocking is weird and/or shocking.

And the gunnie community jumped on the bandwagon, promoting Starbucks within it’s ranks as a gun-friendly place.  I’m certain their revenues increased.  And two or three anti-gun rights freaks boycotted and wrote scathing letters!

Sadly, while O.C. (open carry) might be legal in many parts of the country, culturally it’s looked-down-upon, at least in some areas.  And parts of the gunnie community attempted to push the envelope by attending Starbucks in open possession of all manner of weaponry, including shotguns and rifles.

If we look ‘normal’ and unthreatening, it will become a cultural norm, and so on…

Sadly, there continue to be hoplophobes.  Those folks who see a real firearm from 50 yards away (or a toy or a squirt gun, or a paintball gun, or a child making a pistol image with his thumb and forefinger) AND THEY FREAK OUT!

And many of these folks (the previous two or three?) wrote threatening letters to businesses with whom they have issues.

Starbucks recently responded, stating while the current policy remains in force, they are asking the firearms community to leave their guns at home!

I, for one, had hopes the fear subculture would change, and bringing a rifle or a pistol into a place of business wouldn’t be looked at any more askance than bringing a wallet.  Seriously, when I see someone with a gun in public, as long as it’s not being pointed at someone, my first thought is ‘Cool!  What kind is it?’

I don’t get coffee out much and rarely at Starbucks, anyway.  Guess, if I do, I’ll continue to carry concealed. But, at their policies and prices, I’ll probably go to Dutch Bros.!  Locally, they had an armed employee stop a robbery of their shop, and they didn’t fire him!

They gave him a raise!

Dutchbros Coffee.

CLICK HERE!

Quick Draw McGraw

quick draw artistpistol-training.com has an interesting link adding to the debate regarding the speed of the draw (pistol presentation).  It seems, empirically:

Professor Ross explains that in 90% of the 1,100 cases studied, an officer had less than two seconds to react to perceived lethal danger. (Law Enforcement Executive Forum, 2013, #13(2), p 90) (emphasis Guffaw)

While an interesting factoid (and, to be fair, I’ve not read the study, it costs $4.00) my emphasis is about an officer being the focus.  Most of us gun folks on the Internet, reading this and many other blogs are not officers, not in uniform and not charged with protection of the public at large.

And, I’m certain a civilian carrying discretely doesn’t have the same constraints on their actions.  Civilians probably have more.

Having said all this, it would be ‘cool’ is all of us were Condition Yellow enough to be able to react to perceived lethal danger in less than two seconds.  But, we are not cops, special operators, nor super heroes.  We are just responsible men and women who train for the eventuality.

And hope it never happens.

"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas - how he got in my pajamas I dunno!" - Groucho Marx as Captain Spaulding in Animal Crackers

This election is not about who gets voted off the island.
It’s about who is at the tiller of this Republic’s Ship of State. - Guffaw

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The Four Rules

1. ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED.

2. NEVER POINT YOUR MUZZLE AT SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY.

3. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET AND YOU ARE READY TO SHOOT.

4. KNOW YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEYOND.

Certified EVIL!

FEAR

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." - Bene Gesserit, from Frank Herbert's Dune

Penn Jillette

“F**k Civility. Hyperbole, passion, and metaphor are beautiful parts of rhetoric. The marketplace of ideas cannot be toned down for the insane.” - Penn Jillette

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