(in part) A military lawyer who made a presentation during the Industry Day noted that the United States is not a signatory to the Hague Conventions which outlawed the use of “dum-dum” and expanding bullets more than a century ago. It is the military’s position that the shift to jacketed hollowpoint (JHP) ammunition, which more efficiently transfers energy to the target and which presents much less of a risk of over-penetration, is more humane and less of a risk to innocent civilians downrange in modern combat where there are often no clear front lines. (…)
I strongly suspect that the Army has already taken a long and hard look at the data produced by the Federal Bureau of Investigation when they recently investigated switching handgun calibers, an investigation that led the agency to abandon the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. The FBI discovered that 9mm outperforms both .40 S&W and .45 ACP when using premium hollowpoints, while having less perceived recoil and much greater ammunition capacity.
We are no longer using 60 cal. musket balls. Have the new findings by the FBI and U.S. Military discounted the previous century’s research, now that the ammunition has been more scientifically designed? Or do the basic laws of physics still apply – frontal area, mass, velocity and center-mass hits?
I commented on one that ‘we’ have been taught for a couple of generations now to NOT fight back.
Making most of society sheep to the f’ng slaughter!
I had a recent conversation with a female friend in Chicago who has enough infirmities to make me appear as a decathlete! She used to work physical security back-in-the-day at TMCCC (pre-infirmities).
And we discussed about how, if there had ever been an assault on the TMCCC building (people did fire guns at it, and one of the 911 terrorists did live across the street while taking flight training. This is a credit card company collections facility, after all.) there were a number of us who would have been advancing toward the threat instead of hiding under our desks, waiting to die.
It’s how we were wired. Security, former cops and military, people who felt they had the duty to do something!
What if students had rushed the Columbine guys en masse, or the church shooter? Or thrown books and chairs, as the ASM826 post suggests?
Certainly, running openly against an armed assailant will probably get you shot or stabbed, but in a group assault response? A superiority of numbers?
Of course, if someone possessed a firearm and knew how to use it...
Sometimes, violence IS the answer.
Sadly, most of us who wanted to respond @ TMCCC are now in our 60’s and 70’s, and would resemble slow-walking zombies due to our infirmities if we responded.
While the young sheep were under their desks.
“An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.” – Jeff Cooper
“Gun maker Colt Defense LLC plans to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection by Monday (yesterday), according to people familiar with the matter, amid business and accounting troubles. The company has secured financing to continue operating while in bankruptcy and expects to remain in business after the restructuring, the people said.” The combination of years of indifference toward the civilian market combined and the gut-punch that was losing most of its military AR business have finally caught up to Colt . . .(WSJ)
A company with a long tradition, filing it’s second bankruptcy in a little over 20 years.
Back-in-the-day, when the standards battling for market share were largely Colt and Smith & Wesson, I always thought of Smith as the Chevy or Ford, and Colt as the Cadillac or Lincoln. A little nicer finish, perhaps, but way overpriced. Always wanted a Dick Special and a Python. Could never afford them. (I am fortunate to have a National Match upper for my 1911!)
And, what the WSJ says is true! Colt kept vying for the military market, and ignoring it’s civilian base. And the military market went elsewhere.
A Python and Detective Special in my future? Probably not.
Glock’s dominance in the LEO market is epic. Over 68% of the market is staggering. But that’s actually not that surprising to me.
What is, well, not so surprising, but disappointing… is the complete falling of SIG and Beretta. 22.6% and 8.5% respectively. As bad as that is… is the results of the question “What would you like to carry?” Those numbers being only 21.3% and 4.6%.
This very clearly tells us that the time of metal framed guns fired with hammers is going the way of the Flint Lock. This saddens me. I prefer the metal-hammer guns over poly-striker guns. The feel, the weight, the superior single action pull… and that I can pull more accuracy out of a hammer fired gun.
What saddens me the most about this though – is that it tells me that Law Enforcement is no longer a Profession of Shootists. Like the FBI, Municipal Law Enforcement isn’t a Gun Culture anymore. They no longer want fine guns of refinement and craftsmanship… they only want Shooting Appliances. They want guns – and this is the secret to Glock’s success – that are simplified down to the lowest common denominator. Yes, I’ll say it.
Glock is the Common Core of handguns.
Most LE Agencies are not hiring shooters anymore. They want guys with education in Psychology and Human Development… They want Councilors. We saw this trend starting 20 years ago. I think this is why we see so many questionable police shootings… so many cops shooting dogs. I think a lot of these COP 2.0 guys may be power tripping… because the guys that come from the Gun Culture don’t get worked up or feel the need to power trip and flex their authority so much as these C2.0 guys and gals.
Huh… Oddly enough, all my LEO friends are from the Classic Old School variety. Good Cops that use Common Sense before using Ego. Damn good Cops. Many of them carry Glocks, because of Policy, not by choice. Some choose the Glocks… and that’s fine. They can’t shoot that well anyways. (j/k)
The Sidearms used by the most astute of shooting professionals remain hammer fired, metal framed guns. The US Navy SEALs, I must point out – having the freedom of using anything they want, use SIG 226’s. I don’t know any single group that personifies a Gun Culture more than the SEALS. They take Pistol Craft more seriously than any other group… with US Air Marshals being a close second. And they want that SIG. They want a stable shooting platform with as much accuracy as you can have in a Semi-Auto handgun.
In the Consumer Market – sales of SIG’s and Beretta’s are down. Regardless of quality, and regardless of special offers and marketing efforts, you just can’t sell them like you used to. The first choice is Glock… followed by the S&W M&P and the Springfield XDM series guns.
I’m not counting 1911’s – that is a market unique to it’s own, and I’ll talk about that in more detail at another time.
For me – I will remain a fan of the SIG’s and the Beretta’s. I prefer the triggers. I prefer the safeties. Now, if you are going to go Glock – get a new trigger system from Lone Wolf. Get some new sights from Lone Wolf. And you can make the most out of that Glock, if that’s what you prefer or have to live with. And I do appreciate the Glock for what it is… and do like them with LWD triggers. But given my druthers, I’ll take my Beretta over any Glock.
Oddly enough, the guns I want the most are all metal framed, hammer guns of the Revolving variety. With only a couple automatics. A SIG M11A1 is one the autos. The other are Browning/FN Hi-Powers and a SIG P210. But my beard is grey and I don’t like the music these kids listen to these days. Oh… and get off my lawn.
I don’t entirely agree with Mad Ogre. But I don’t entirely disagree.
The Glock is down to the lowest common denominator. And most of today’s law enforcement are not shootists – they are looking for an appliance.
I miss the good old days when people like Bill Jordan helped Smith & Wesson design revolvers. And cops were all about mastery of their tools. I wonder if police qualifications have been reduced to a pass/fail – being ‘good enough’?
Now we keep hearing about engagements wherein many shots are exchanged, but no one is hit.
So, here I am in the mid-1980’s, ‘working’ as a private investigator. And I find myself in Phoenix Police HQ (7th Ave/Washington).
No, I hadn’t been arrested.
The shoe leather part of the job. This, of course, was pre-Internet.
And I needed a copy of a motor vehicle accident report to get info on a participant. Their name, address, DL#, DOB, and if/how they were cited in said accident.
Which of course, they were.
SO, I’m standing at the counter in the main lobby, along with other ne’er-do-wells (lawyers, insurance adjusters), when a voice calls out my name.
“GUFFAW!” (Of course, he really didn’t yell Guffaw, as if commanding the people around him to laugh. :-))
I turn around, and here’s my Criminalistics professor from college! He was one of the criminalists at PPD. I was surprised he recognized me – it had been maybe 7-8 years since I had seen him.
He asked if I were busy. I responded not particularly, and he offered me a tour of the PPD crime lab!
You must remember, this was before all the CSI-based TV; the procedurals where the cops catch and convict bad guys based on scientifically-determined physical evidence. It was many times asking questions and shoe leather which ruled the day.
But, I still thought it was cool!
The water-filled bullet trap they shot into to obtain exemplars of spent bullets. The cool old photos of how it was back in the day. The wall of firearms!
Yes, they had (and presumably still have) a wall with just about every model of gun you could imagine. For comparisons, testing, all manner of stuff. Most had been confiscated from arrestees.
So they were mostly junk – the good stuff having been returned to their lawful owners or sold at auction.
They even would sometimes loan firearms to the undercover guys, to strengthen their street cred. No police .38/.357 revolvers for these guys! (It WAS the 80’s)
And there she was, a shotgun. Short enough to conceal under a knee-length coat. An over/under 12 gauge.
Sawn off to maybe 14 inches! With a hacksaw!
A Diana-grade engraved shotgun! Looked like it had been hand sawn and then dragged behind a car!No doubt recovered from some hood.
From the internet – way too nice to be the original!
I was almost in tears.
He did tell me that one officer went undercover and carried her. No one ever thought he was a cop until it was too late – I mean, what cop would defile such a fine machine like that?
I’ve always liked miniature stuff. (Insert rude joke here) H-O train sets when I was a kid; stuff near impossible to make tiny. My ex spent many years crafting dioramas of rooms, scenes from antique homes, complete with carpet, furniture and art. All to scale. Not in my skill set.
I marvel at people’s ability to craft such things. Perhaps because I was never any good at it.
A friend pointed me to this You Tube video of a German marvel that is becoming a major tourist attraction:
This tiny wonder brings millions to Hamburg, Germany every year! And is constantly be added to and tweaked.
I suspect I’ll never get to see Europe, but, THIS would definitely be on my itinerary, were I to go.
There’s an old joke about a woman who gets to the Pearly Gates, and wants to know if her husband is there. She tells St. Peter that his name is Frank, and he said he would turn over in his grave if she ever had relations with another man after his passing. St. Peter had trouble identifying which Frank, then suddenly exclaimed, “Oh, you mean Pinwheel Frank!”
I saw this thing from Guns & Ammo about a new 1911. I became excited. I like 1911s. And this was a Browning!
I see permutations of the above on the streets more and more. Our tax dollars being used to support out-of-shape police personnel who’s ACLU lawsuits have made such a thing possible.
Yes, I understand many officers spend most of their shifts at a desk, or behind the wheel, and it’s more difficult to keep in shape when constantly seated. And of course, the whole police-doughnut meme.
But, there was a time when keeping in condition was part of the job.
Back-in-the-day, there was a time when a patrolman’s sergeant would send out a fat man’s letter to the officer, advising him that he had X number of days to lose weight or be put on desk duty. Or worse.
Now, with police unions, their right to be fat like the rest of us seems to be engraved in stone. Or cellulite.
I remember when I worked for John’s Uniforms back in the 80’s. At that time, there was no Internet, and very few independent uniform and equipment stores. As a result, we sold mail order all over the country. And our business was booming.
We filled many special orders for equipment not available through regular retail channels. I specifically remember an order for a black, basket-weave Sam Browne duty belt (from a department in Georgia I believe). THEWAIST MEASUREMENT NINETY-FOUR INCHES!! (94″) It took a whole steer hide to get one in one piece.
Seriously, how does such an officer pursue a suspect on foot? Or get into a squad car? Or even a restroom stall?
I understand the military (with the exception of The Marines and Spec-Ops guys) have a similar problem. Our tax dollars at work…
At least he’s using a bicycle. How he caught him I’ll never know!
Now, I’m overweight and disabled. But I’m not tasked with public safety, either.
One of the ‘quaint’ training drills of yore is the Bill Drill.
Back in the dark ages when I was a serious IPSC competitor (once on the gold team and twice on the silver team) Robbie and Brian shot WC pistols and we all got together quite a bit for serious practice sessions. On one of these sessions I suggested a drill to work on front sight tracking during recoil and Robbie being the “funny man” he usually is coined the term “Bill Drill” and it has obviously stuck. Keep in mind this was the early 80s and we were all top level IPSC competitors shooting state of the art race guns/gear for the day. At the time we were all shooting .38 super comp guns out of Safariland holsters (we were all on team Safariland).
What it is:
1 IPSC Item target 7 yds downrange
Start position: Facing target, surrender hand position
Drill: Draw and fire 6 shots
Object: All “A” hits in under 2 seconds, if you get a shot out of the A zone the run doesn’t count
Remember this was top shooters using race gear. I personally can’t do a sub 2 second run with a real carry gun from a honest carry holster, more like 2.6 sec would be the norm. (Bill Wilson, pistol-forum.com)
Seems Mr. Wilson has developed an evolution of the ‘Bill Drill’. As follows:
Bill Drill 2
designed by Bill Wilson
Range: 7 yd Target: standard IDPA target 8″ -0 zone Start position: gun in holster, hands at sides Rounds fired: 15
This is a new version of the classic Bill Drill developed by Bill Wilson with a goal toward working the draw and different numbers of shots on target. Scoring is standard Vickers with a half second penalty per point down.
There are five strings of fire, each for time:
Draw and fire 1 shot.
Draw and fire 2 shots.
Draw and fire 3 shots.
Draw and fire 4 shots.
Draw and fire 5 shots.
Bill Wilson suggests a 10-second total score as a goal.
Gotta love the old-timers teaching the young turks a trick or two!
(I, of course, usually did the Bill Drill #1 with a 3″ .357. IF I strived (strove?) for ‘A’ hits – Well, let me explain it this way: When Robbie was shooting in the same competition (we were NOT in the same class!) by the time I drew, shot, and reholstered, he’d driven home, changed into his jammies, popped some popcorn and was watching Miami Vice…:-) )
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